hara_patta_for_rico
07-10 08:12 AM
It seems several persons are already discrediting the lawsuit and from the comments I have seen, it is apparent that some have not read the entire complaint.
In order to understand how a civil lawsuit works one needs to understand that in a complaint, one makes no legal arguments, does not cite case or precedent law but only cites the simple facts. The other side can respond to the complaint and deny or accept the allegations in part or in whole. Many cases do not go to trial, they end up in settlements or are decided through summary judgement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summary_judgment) (for the plaintiff or the defendants) if the case has undisputable matters of facts and one of the parties petitions for it. Several processes also take place ie Discovery long before an actual trial. I recommend reading the following wikipedia entry to familiarize one at a high level with the processes and rules involved:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Rule_of_Civil_Procedure
To get to the core legal arguments behind the case, one needs to read the counts (they are only stated and not argued/expounded on starting pg 13). Namely those are:
COUNT I: VIOLATION OF THE FIFTH AMENDMENT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) (constitutional rights issue)
COUNT II: VIOLATION OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES ACT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_Procedures_Act)
COUNT III: DECLARATORY JUDGMENT ACT (http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title4/civ00036.htm)
COUNT IV: EQUAL ACCESS TO JUSTICE ACT (http://www.hhs.gov/dab/guidelines/eaja.html)
COUNT V: PROMISSORY ESTOPPEL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promissory_estoppel#Promissory_estoppel)
There are several laws cited above, its thus puzzling to see requests for one to cite the laws USCIS/DOS is accused of violating when its all there in the lawsuit. The plaintiff has the burden of proving the counts they have stated at the appropriate time and not in the complaint. One does not play all their cards in the initial complaint.
Even more puzzling is the persistent fear that there would be retributory action from USCIS. Judges do not take kindly to such behavior and USCIS would have no chance defending itself on charges of retaliatory actions.
Thank you for getting some sanity into the conversation....atleast some people are realising that actions, especially those perpetrated by Govt Agencies, are watched closely. They will be held accountable, whether one likes it or not . If the lawyers want to profit from all of this, let it be so, as long as the voice of a troubled community is heard in a court of law. That is just the first step....
In order to understand how a civil lawsuit works one needs to understand that in a complaint, one makes no legal arguments, does not cite case or precedent law but only cites the simple facts. The other side can respond to the complaint and deny or accept the allegations in part or in whole. Many cases do not go to trial, they end up in settlements or are decided through summary judgement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summary_judgment) (for the plaintiff or the defendants) if the case has undisputable matters of facts and one of the parties petitions for it. Several processes also take place ie Discovery long before an actual trial. I recommend reading the following wikipedia entry to familiarize one at a high level with the processes and rules involved:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Rule_of_Civil_Procedure
To get to the core legal arguments behind the case, one needs to read the counts (they are only stated and not argued/expounded on starting pg 13). Namely those are:
COUNT I: VIOLATION OF THE FIFTH AMENDMENT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) (constitutional rights issue)
COUNT II: VIOLATION OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES ACT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_Procedures_Act)
COUNT III: DECLARATORY JUDGMENT ACT (http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title4/civ00036.htm)
COUNT IV: EQUAL ACCESS TO JUSTICE ACT (http://www.hhs.gov/dab/guidelines/eaja.html)
COUNT V: PROMISSORY ESTOPPEL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promissory_estoppel#Promissory_estoppel)
There are several laws cited above, its thus puzzling to see requests for one to cite the laws USCIS/DOS is accused of violating when its all there in the lawsuit. The plaintiff has the burden of proving the counts they have stated at the appropriate time and not in the complaint. One does not play all their cards in the initial complaint.
Even more puzzling is the persistent fear that there would be retributory action from USCIS. Judges do not take kindly to such behavior and USCIS would have no chance defending itself on charges of retaliatory actions.
Thank you for getting some sanity into the conversation....atleast some people are realising that actions, especially those perpetrated by Govt Agencies, are watched closely. They will be held accountable, whether one likes it or not . If the lawyers want to profit from all of this, let it be so, as long as the voice of a troubled community is heard in a court of law. That is just the first step....
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frodobaggins
04-03 11:52 PM
:mad:
Hey imv116, how about the fact that it is totally unethical and illegal? How can you support this? I myself have done MS and have seen the effect of this ridiculous practice. I was very good and yet could not get any job because the market is flooded with false resumes. So employers think there are many experienced candidates and do not want freshers!!
Also, just like others have mentioned, it undermines the quality and experience of the genuine people. I agree that students sometimes do not have a choice in the current scenario. But at the same time, many of them are just not good enough to get a job on their own merit. That is why they have no problem resorting to such shameful tactics.
:mad:
Hey imv116, how about the fact that it is totally unethical and illegal? How can you support this? I myself have done MS and have seen the effect of this ridiculous practice. I was very good and yet could not get any job because the market is flooded with false resumes. So employers think there are many experienced candidates and do not want freshers!!
Also, just like others have mentioned, it undermines the quality and experience of the genuine people. I agree that students sometimes do not have a choice in the current scenario. But at the same time, many of them are just not good enough to get a job on their own merit. That is why they have no problem resorting to such shameful tactics.
:mad:
cshen
06-12 06:28 AM
We are not out of the CIR woods yet.
Link:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070612/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_immigration
Link:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070612/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_immigration
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senthil1
06-13 02:08 PM
If the restrictions in H1b comes then I may be impacted also many of my friends and relatives may be impacted. For our personal lives H1b and green card are important if we want to stay in USA. My point is if congress make sure that if I or you will not take any eligible US persons job in USA that is acceptable for me. That will make sure everyone happy
Anyhow we will see what next for CIR and we will do more analysis when it comes.
Senthil1, Pineapple
Please let us not sound harsh and have a bipartisan :D discussion. It is just my statement I do not disagree with neither of you.
Rule 2
You mean Microsoft and Google and other companies want to stop outsourcing. They would not have build a huge team in india if they wanted to do this. The point that you are missing is that they need H1-Bs here because no american born is availabe here to fill those positions.
Read my statement thoroughly.
Big consulting companies(Bearing point....my list will go on) that are plenty in the US who hire and fire H1-B and american born if they cannot find another client for them after few days.
What will happen to these companies .. they have to shut down
Rule 2 will be a disaster for all these companies.
These companies do not go to india to get H1-B's they get them when they come here brought by india Desi companies.
It will be a mess. You might be talking about one company that will never displace and american and will garauntee an employee that he will never be fired once hired : Give me a break.
Anyhow we will see what next for CIR and we will do more analysis when it comes.
Senthil1, Pineapple
Please let us not sound harsh and have a bipartisan :D discussion. It is just my statement I do not disagree with neither of you.
Rule 2
You mean Microsoft and Google and other companies want to stop outsourcing. They would not have build a huge team in india if they wanted to do this. The point that you are missing is that they need H1-Bs here because no american born is availabe here to fill those positions.
Read my statement thoroughly.
Big consulting companies(Bearing point....my list will go on) that are plenty in the US who hire and fire H1-B and american born if they cannot find another client for them after few days.
What will happen to these companies .. they have to shut down
Rule 2 will be a disaster for all these companies.
These companies do not go to india to get H1-B's they get them when they come here brought by india Desi companies.
It will be a mess. You might be talking about one company that will never displace and american and will garauntee an employee that he will never be fired once hired : Give me a break.
more...
snathan
05-11 12:57 AM
What is a donor. I previously donated $500 and I am not on that forum. Also asked IV through PM about it. Never got a response.
They are considering Donor - only people who are contributing and not based on previous donation. As long as you are donating you will have the donor status.
They are considering Donor - only people who are contributing and not based on previous donation. As long as you are donating you will have the donor status.
uma001
12-21 04:21 PM
This is from Murthy chat.
Question: If in the past I have been out of H1B status for 6 months (I-94 not expired), is this going to hurt my GC (or any new petitions to change / extend / adjust status)?
Answer: A person who fails to maintain status for over 180 days may have a problem obtaining the approval of the I-485, which allows a maximum of 180 days for one to be out of status under Section 245(k) of the INA, unless the person is covered under 245(i) of the INA. Sometimes, though, the fault of the employer in not paying the salary while the person is considered an employee may not pose a problem but at other times it may pose a problem. Not having pay stubs will certainly adversely impact the ability to obtain an extension or change of status from the USCIS. Jun-20-2005.
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Thats for those who are still in US. You have been put of US and reentered , so dont worry...Chill out
Question: If in the past I have been out of H1B status for 6 months (I-94 not expired), is this going to hurt my GC (or any new petitions to change / extend / adjust status)?
Answer: A person who fails to maintain status for over 180 days may have a problem obtaining the approval of the I-485, which allows a maximum of 180 days for one to be out of status under Section 245(k) of the INA, unless the person is covered under 245(i) of the INA. Sometimes, though, the fault of the employer in not paying the salary while the person is considered an employee may not pose a problem but at other times it may pose a problem. Not having pay stubs will certainly adversely impact the ability to obtain an extension or change of status from the USCIS. Jun-20-2005.
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Thats for those who are still in US. You have been put of US and reentered , so dont worry...Chill out
more...
angelfire76
09-28 04:33 PM
Having worked for short periods of time in Germany and Netherlands, I would say that they very much make you feel that you are a foreigner, you can never fit in and are most unwelcome in the country. What irked me is the attitude that they will take your money gladly but don't want you there.
In fact when I was looking for accomodation in Stuttgart the first thing the landlords asked me was "When are you going to leave?".
The US may have it's faults, but I've never been asked that question by property owners, only by consulate officers.
No thanks, I would rather move back to India than work as a third-class citizen in Europe. :mad:
Somebody said our own Asian migrants are against us. I can see their viewpoint. We are perceived to pose a threat to the well-being of their children and they do have a sense of entitlement just because they happened to come here earlier. Can't change that attitude. We can also see that in some people who haven't yet got their green cards or are newly minted resident "aliens". E.g. Entitlement due to Master's degree from US, Consultants vs FTE, Desi company consultants vs American company consultants etc. Did we ever stop and think that the system does not even need to play "Divide and Conquer" in a house already divided?
I frankly think that to an average joe in the US all of us are just another brown guy or chinaman etc. (apologies to the non Asian members of IV) and we don't need to feel that we are somehow superior to the other immigrant.
In fact when I was looking for accomodation in Stuttgart the first thing the landlords asked me was "When are you going to leave?".
The US may have it's faults, but I've never been asked that question by property owners, only by consulate officers.
No thanks, I would rather move back to India than work as a third-class citizen in Europe. :mad:
Somebody said our own Asian migrants are against us. I can see their viewpoint. We are perceived to pose a threat to the well-being of their children and they do have a sense of entitlement just because they happened to come here earlier. Can't change that attitude. We can also see that in some people who haven't yet got their green cards or are newly minted resident "aliens". E.g. Entitlement due to Master's degree from US, Consultants vs FTE, Desi company consultants vs American company consultants etc. Did we ever stop and think that the system does not even need to play "Divide and Conquer" in a house already divided?
I frankly think that to an average joe in the US all of us are just another brown guy or chinaman etc. (apologies to the non Asian members of IV) and we don't need to feel that we are somehow superior to the other immigrant.
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bigboy007
06-11 10:24 AM
I humbly disagree with you on TARP analogy. TARP was due to direct funding by Government to save "Too Big to Fail" companies and obviously they had a say in that case since it was tax payers money. The focus was only on those limited companies. Having said that this text has a wider repercussions and doesn't spare anyone, whether they are financially sound or goverment funded.
I completely agree with you that US offers better job prospects and earning potential. However, when the noose around the neck turns tighter with such "headless" bills, people will sooner or later, start looking at options.
Trust me companies don't hesitate to move on if the environment isn't business friendly(reasons are higher tax, difficulty hiring immigrants, finding people with right skillsets, and so on) as they are more accountable to shareholders and they would care less if it is US today or Brazil tomorrow, the show must go on.
You have heard of horrific stories of people getting CDN PR and hard to find jobs. Failure stories show up lot quicker than the success stories. I have known three close ones who are well placed in Canada.
There are always two sides of coin and so is the half glass full, a half glass empty.
Bottomline is if such bills turn into bill, its not just immigrant community but the economy as whole gets impacted.
Bhattji
Well I leave that anology up for discussion. But for sure I see lawmakers in the current election year wouldnt be thinking all those as they were years earlier. if this amendment was tied to any jobs bill or BP oil spill bill etc... then for sure many lawmakers wont be reading through as we are doing here.
For canadian immigration stuff I lived there for a while and I know how that economy operates. its certainly low market than that of US many jobs (IT) etc are very low paying and jobs are scarce for experienced but if one has one they are good. That statement is made in context of "Moving" to immigration friendly countries and start living there.
I completely agree with you that US offers better job prospects and earning potential. However, when the noose around the neck turns tighter with such "headless" bills, people will sooner or later, start looking at options.
Trust me companies don't hesitate to move on if the environment isn't business friendly(reasons are higher tax, difficulty hiring immigrants, finding people with right skillsets, and so on) as they are more accountable to shareholders and they would care less if it is US today or Brazil tomorrow, the show must go on.
You have heard of horrific stories of people getting CDN PR and hard to find jobs. Failure stories show up lot quicker than the success stories. I have known three close ones who are well placed in Canada.
There are always two sides of coin and so is the half glass full, a half glass empty.
Bottomline is if such bills turn into bill, its not just immigrant community but the economy as whole gets impacted.
Bhattji
Well I leave that anology up for discussion. But for sure I see lawmakers in the current election year wouldnt be thinking all those as they were years earlier. if this amendment was tied to any jobs bill or BP oil spill bill etc... then for sure many lawmakers wont be reading through as we are doing here.
For canadian immigration stuff I lived there for a while and I know how that economy operates. its certainly low market than that of US many jobs (IT) etc are very low paying and jobs are scarce for experienced but if one has one they are good. That statement is made in context of "Moving" to immigration friendly countries and start living there.
more...
file485
12-22 08:34 AM
this is our history...
1.was working with employer B in June 07(when PD was current for EB2/Oct 2003-India)...went to attorney to file 485 with approved 140 thru ex employer A. filled in all the paperwork for 485,but the attorney was asking for a current employment letter from B with exact skills mentioned on labor and the employer B was not ready to give such a letter and hence we planned to find a new employer and file for 485 in July.
2. In June end found this new current employer C and planned to file 485 in July and all the fiasco scene happened...anyway...in August we filed the 485 with a current employer letter from C with all the skills matching the labor..till here fine.
NOW...we got a copy of the bunch of 48 documents sent to INS from the atnys office...I had given the latest 325a form
current employer C : July 07 - current
employer B : Jan 2006 - June 2007
employer A : June 2003 - Dec 2005 (who filed for labor/i140)
the shitty paralegal now submitted the 325a from submitted in June 07 where the current employer B was the latest.... + the current employment letter of C + 485 employment offer letter from A
She had whitened out the date on the 325a form signed on June 07 and changed it to Aug 07 to my utter shock....
when I call back..she says we will handle any RFE's...
quite worried as the 325a form already says something like 'all info disclosed is truthful'... etc and the fine print..
pls post your thoughts and comments..
hope I dint confuse
1.was working with employer B in June 07(when PD was current for EB2/Oct 2003-India)...went to attorney to file 485 with approved 140 thru ex employer A. filled in all the paperwork for 485,but the attorney was asking for a current employment letter from B with exact skills mentioned on labor and the employer B was not ready to give such a letter and hence we planned to find a new employer and file for 485 in July.
2. In June end found this new current employer C and planned to file 485 in July and all the fiasco scene happened...anyway...in August we filed the 485 with a current employer letter from C with all the skills matching the labor..till here fine.
NOW...we got a copy of the bunch of 48 documents sent to INS from the atnys office...I had given the latest 325a form
current employer C : July 07 - current
employer B : Jan 2006 - June 2007
employer A : June 2003 - Dec 2005 (who filed for labor/i140)
the shitty paralegal now submitted the 325a from submitted in June 07 where the current employer B was the latest.... + the current employment letter of C + 485 employment offer letter from A
She had whitened out the date on the 325a form signed on June 07 and changed it to Aug 07 to my utter shock....
when I call back..she says we will handle any RFE's...
quite worried as the 325a form already says something like 'all info disclosed is truthful'... etc and the fine print..
pls post your thoughts and comments..
hope I dint confuse
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Googler
05-20 09:53 PM
I had scanned a copy of DHS 7001 and emailed to Ombudsman last Wednesday (special thanks to Googler for all his informative messages). Also, when I spoke to TSC IO three weeks ago, the IO mentioned that they will email the 485 team based on my case details....not sure what triggered an action to my case....but whatever it was....I'm glad it did!! :) Congratulations Harish! Btw, Googler is a her not a his. :)
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needhelp!
02-03 12:33 PM
IV already has this as part of the agenda so why try to reinvent the wheel? Currently IV has requested our active involvement in trying to expand our member base to make our voice stronger.
We have professional help to analyze the current political situation to decide on the best course of action that will benefit all members. A lot of background work has to be done before IV can announce a call campaign or letter campaign.
Guys,
I know ROW country may not like this thread, but look at EB-3 India or China, put yourself in our shoes and than you may realize how unfair this country is. In this unprecedented financial turmoil, I feel there are very remote chances for CIR or any package which increase immigration etc would pass, I am taking this initiative to gather as many people I can and go to washington. Again this is not an IV effort. If you are with me , you can spare some time or few days in Washington, please PM me. our sole agenda is bring a 2 line bill to remove country quota...
We have professional help to analyze the current political situation to decide on the best course of action that will benefit all members. A lot of background work has to be done before IV can announce a call campaign or letter campaign.
Guys,
I know ROW country may not like this thread, but look at EB-3 India or China, put yourself in our shoes and than you may realize how unfair this country is. In this unprecedented financial turmoil, I feel there are very remote chances for CIR or any package which increase immigration etc would pass, I am taking this initiative to gather as many people I can and go to washington. Again this is not an IV effort. If you are with me , you can spare some time or few days in Washington, please PM me. our sole agenda is bring a 2 line bill to remove country quota...
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sen_raju
09-19 10:39 AM
Yes, I agree we should change the name to LegalImmigrationVoice. I feel a gr8 sense achievement and satisfaction that I was a part of the rally and was carrying Florida's flag.
Yes we need to put the word LEGAL everywhere. Even at the airport and in the flight after looking at our T-shirts people were asking what we were demanding. It was not clear to them whether we are legal or illegal and so we had to explain them.
Also we should not narrow it down to India and China only....May be in future it will be a good idea to check with the speakers what they are going to talk about.
Overall it was a gr8 effort and hope we will have more turnout in the future.
Yes we need to put the word LEGAL everywhere. Even at the airport and in the flight after looking at our T-shirts people were asking what we were demanding. It was not clear to them whether we are legal or illegal and so we had to explain them.
Also we should not narrow it down to India and China only....May be in future it will be a good idea to check with the speakers what they are going to talk about.
Overall it was a gr8 effort and hope we will have more turnout in the future.
more...
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kalakotim
07-18 10:03 AM
Guys,
We all should be ok.One of my friends called USCIS several times and everytime he has been told that all the applications filed on July 2nd and after were put on HOLD. I wouldn't worry abt Greg's comments.
We all should be ok.One of my friends called USCIS several times and everytime he has been told that all the applications filed on July 2nd and after were put on HOLD. I wouldn't worry abt Greg's comments.
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keshtwo
07-09 04:46 PM
what made you think so ?Do you think they are violating the law and allocating more than 7% to other countries?
Spillover means India, china and mexico get more than 7% for one year, dont it?
Spillover means India, china and mexico get more than 7% for one year, dont it?
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same_old_guy
07-09 04:47 PM
And we are not in deep shit right now ???? Where have you been all the time ?
Why are you so scared ? Is it because you think USCIS wil do harm to you and others ? Well, what the hell it was doing while allocating all the quota in 15 days to avoid the rush ?
I wish USCIS would get down on it's knee and issue an apologies to all those people it's screwed over !
Why are you so scared ? Is it because you think USCIS wil do harm to you and others ? Well, what the hell it was doing while allocating all the quota in 15 days to avoid the rush ?
I wish USCIS would get down on it's knee and issue an apologies to all those people it's screwed over !
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vin
06-13 11:21 AM
thought that the video was quite funny. Now for some one to think that it is true is even more funny
LOL true. I think the clip must've been made for comedy central.
LOL true. I think the clip must've been made for comedy central.
more...
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bank_king2003
04-09 04:29 PM
Dude i must say, it must have taken a huge effort to come up with all this. But guess what, it wont make a dent. There are way too many Indians, Chinese and Mexicans in line and too few GC's to give out.
You are right that it wont make any dent not becasue of the numbers of indians, chinease or mexicans but because we failed to identify the problem at a basic level.
if we have a clear answer and hold on following questions i think then only we can make USCIS/DOS to behave.
1) Is USCIS or DOS accountable for anything? if they do anything wrong can we do anything?
2) If USCIS post incorrect and bogus numbers of demand do we have a right or anything to challenge them?
3) If USCIS says that they are doing quarterly spillover and don't do that can we do anything legally?
You are right that it wont make any dent not becasue of the numbers of indians, chinease or mexicans but because we failed to identify the problem at a basic level.
if we have a clear answer and hold on following questions i think then only we can make USCIS/DOS to behave.
1) Is USCIS or DOS accountable for anything? if they do anything wrong can we do anything?
2) If USCIS post incorrect and bogus numbers of demand do we have a right or anything to challenge them?
3) If USCIS says that they are doing quarterly spillover and don't do that can we do anything legally?
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grinch
02-16 08:34 PM
Aw this is so great!
People are actually participating in this battle!!!
Well, for all of us not-so-experienced 3d artists, this battle is a very good way to learn many new things and techniques. I mean, I have no idea of winning this battle, but from using what I've learned, and combining new techniques, I'm sure to learn alot.
A quick question, what are you guys modeling in? nurbs? I'm doing mine all in nurbs, and i'm having a little trouble modeling a nice chair, like the one that eisloe had.
Not asking for any explanation, but possibly a couple tips for all of us here?
Thanks guys, I'm working hard on it.
People are actually participating in this battle!!!
Well, for all of us not-so-experienced 3d artists, this battle is a very good way to learn many new things and techniques. I mean, I have no idea of winning this battle, but from using what I've learned, and combining new techniques, I'm sure to learn alot.
A quick question, what are you guys modeling in? nurbs? I'm doing mine all in nurbs, and i'm having a little trouble modeling a nice chair, like the one that eisloe had.
Not asking for any explanation, but possibly a couple tips for all of us here?
Thanks guys, I'm working hard on it.
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coopheal
12-10 09:28 AM
EB3-India moved for 15 days. This sucks.
A movement of 15 days in EB3-I is a good movement. Big movement in EB3 without law change is not possible.
FOIA for number of cases per country/category will disclose where we stand but this movement also assures me that we are really past Apr 01 syndrome.
A movement of 15 days in EB3-I is a good movement. Big movement in EB3 without law change is not possible.
FOIA for number of cases per country/category will disclose where we stand but this movement also assures me that we are really past Apr 01 syndrome.
ashishgour
09-10 02:39 PM
can some one pls post the link for live telecast
thanks
http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/calendar.html
thanks
http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/calendar.html
vkotval
12-28 03:01 PM
Just wanted to share this link with you all
http://www.murthy.com/news/n_analys.html
http://www.murthy.com/news/n_analys.html
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